Curse

Darth The Xx · Sep 02, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

While in my opinion TA is one of the funner aspects of GW I do support it being removed, the state it is now is just a shambles, you wait forever to get into games and when you finally do you get confront with retarded garbage like R/As and RtL spikers and MB eles, not that I have a problem beating them, but it is honestly no fun to play against.

Also I believe implementing a new pvp arena and a new title with it will bring about some freshness to the stagnated nature of PvP atm. Everybody will start more or less equal and it should attract a bunch of new players who have been deterred from PvP prior to the arena being added.

-Vertex- · Sep 02, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

Ok, let's put it in this way. When i talk about nerfing Foul Feast/Plague Sending, i actually mean minor nerfs. Foul Feast should be changed in order to provide less energy.

I thought we're talking about major issues here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

Also if you compare Plague Signet, Plague Sending and Plague Touch i think that you will be able to easily understand why Plague Sending is over the top.

Dshot is better than Disrupting Shot too. It's just a good Skill.

Necros are already being replaced by Paragons and 2 Monk backlines if it fits in the build. I don't see how nerfing FF/PS would do anything than gimp Balanced and put the favor even more to 2 Monk builds. If you want more variety, there just need to be more viable condition removal skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Shove: lose all enchantments.

What would this even do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

While in my opinion TA is one of the funner aspects of GW I do support it being removed, the state it is now is just a shambles, you wait forever to get into games and when you finally do you get confront with retarded garbage like R/As and RtL spikers and MB eles, not that I have a problem beating them, but it is honestly no fun to play against.

Enter a GvG and tell me how much fun it is to play against R/A or MB Split.

Master Ketsu · Sep 02, 2009, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vertex-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Shove: lose all enchantments.

What would this even do?

Ever play against gothspike?

They prot the Warrior with aegis, making it impossible to magebane shove. This has forced balanced teams to use R/me with leech signet if they want to rupt it, which in turn makes them weaker against other teams and increases the "build wars" problem.

Although I did forget to mention that it should cause enchantment loss before skill completion, so you got me there.

-Vertex- · Sep 02, 2009, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Ever play against gothspike?

They prot the Warrior with aegis, making it impossible to magebane shove. This has forced balanced teams to use R/me with leech signet if they want to rupt it, which in turn makes them weaker against other teams and increases the "build wars" problem.

It doesn't help if the Aegis is removed after he used Shove you know.

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 02, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Here are the nerfs most people who TA can agree with would save or at least help TA:

Foul Feast: 0...1...2 energy. Max 5 energy gained.

Plague sending: 5E, 12R -or- 2 sec cast time.

August skill update 2009: Revert it.

-ALL No att/unlinked shadow step skills- : Move to critical strikes, 50% failure with CS 4 or less.

Shove: lose all enchantments.

Visions of regret: Conditional damage negation applied to all hexes, not just Mesmer ones.

Distortion: Duration based on illusion, energy loss based on Fast casting. ( or some similar nerf that causes the skill to be only usable by Me/ )

Mind blast: 0...3...6 energy.

Primal Rage: Smiters boon.

Shield Bash: 3 sec duration @ 0 strength.

I agree with all your suggestions. Though shove will still be a huge problem, the enchantment(aegis) will still be active while shove is being used, hence uninterruptable. I could add a suggestion I picked up on another forum, make aegis 10e, 30r, 2s and give +20(scaling) armor for x seconds to all party members.

Though if I were in charge I'd just nuke the hell out of stonesoul strike and its brother. 5e, 30r, 5s target takes 5 damage but you suffer 50 damage. Eat that.

Smiters booning prage is a bit harsh imo, the previous nerf to the recharge was good maybe add a little if it's still a problem.

Just get rid of stonesoul strike at the very least and I'll bring with me 3 friends to TA and add to the numbers.

the_deSKtructor · Sep 02, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vertex-

Necros are already being replaced by Paragons and 2 Monk backlines if it fits in the build. I don't see how nerfing FF/PS would do anything than gimp Balanced and put the favor even more to 2 Monk builds. If you want more variety, there just need to be more viable condition removal skills.

Running a paragon over a necromance means that you will be left with no enchantment removal. It's not a big deal when you face the standard balanced teams, since there are really no enchantments worth be removed, but versus other teams it can become a major drawback. About the dual monk teams, they are being run because of the retardedness of some offensive templates, which allow easy kills even without the need of a 3rd dmg character.

Duchess1 · Sep 02, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

/signed
Keep Ta.

Teh Jace · Sep 02, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

It's not a big deal when you face the standard balanced teams, since there are really no enchantments worth be removed.

Vig spirit which rivals EDA at opness.

Revelations · Sep 02, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Vig spirit which rivals EDA at opness.

It wouldn't be nearly so powerful if armor stacking wasn't what it is. Still be a very strong anti pressure skill/cover, but at least monks wouldn't be able to tank a warrior mashing on them by spearing him.

the_deSKtructor · Sep 02, 2009, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Vig spirit which rivals EDA at opness.

That's the exception, but you can't really deal with it even with enchantment removal due to it's recharge time, so...

insidious420 · Sep 02, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Why not just 'merge' RA & TA, ie: get rid of RA instead & keep TA how it is, but let single players or partial teams join at random (like RA). Then, replace HB with Sealed Deck.

I agree with lots of Linsey's post, but at the same time, come on! Nerf shit that has been deserving of a nerf for months but instead has gone untouched! Escape, Lightning Reflexes, EDA, etc. Nerf the crap OP'd shit.

On a tangent now that I mentioned EDA: I hate that skill; think of a dazed counterpart (say, Anti-Spellcaster Stance), that applied dazed as frequently, efficiently, & energy-care-free as EDA lets you spam blind. If there were such a skill as A.S.S., it would be nerfed in a second flat 'cuz A.Net has a boner for spellcasters but hates melee.

troll · Sep 02, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

/signed

TA was always where I had the most fun, and removing it makes no sense at all. Like someone said, it's better to have a broken TA than no TA at all. Best of all would be a TA ladder or something like that, and some proper skill balances, of course, but that's obviously not happening. It's just sad how they feel the need to completely remove the format, just because they can't be bothered to try and fix it...

Teh Jace · Sep 02, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

That's the exception, but you can't really deal with it even with enchantment removal due to it's recharge time, so...

N/D with CE + rip can take care of it (also very viable if u dont wanna waste time fighting dual monk R/A crap). And the difference is huuuge.

emuking · Sep 02, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I also thought it was worth noting that you can be very successful in TA without the use of ventrillo, which makes TA unique in that aspect (unlike HA teams (i know lames exist) and GvG).

Master Ketsu · Sep 02, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Escape, Lightning Reflexes, EDA

But none of these are OP. Escape is a filler elite for bars which do not need it. R/D Dont even use it anymore ( They use WS now ) and R/A could just use Assault enchantments if Escape was nerfed. LR is ofset enough by its long recharge. EDA is gimmicky and highly vulnerable to a strip ( which good teams usually do ) or even more hilariously blind the EDA derv since it is blind dependent on martial skills.

the_deSKtructor · Sep 02, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

EDA is gimmicky and highly vulnerable to a strip ( which good teams usually do ) or even more hilariously blind the EDA derv since it is blind dependent on martial skills.

Because cover enchanting doesn't exists...

Teh Jace · Sep 02, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

And cuz spear of redemption doesn't exist...

WeeMeeister · Sep 02, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Signed. The only serious problem with Team Arenas is the horrible / nonexistent skill balancing being done for it. Shove Spike, obviously the largest problem with TA, has, and never will, be nerfed. Several players, including myself, have farmed Team Arenas for 100-150+ Gladiator points a run / day, which is obviously flawed considering the skill required for Shove Spike. Developers obviously had no desire to fix this arena, even though many incredibly skilled players consistently use and enjoy it. Removing Team Arenas for a completely different format entirely, which I am completely certain not all players will enjoy, is silly and unneeded and should definitely be reconsidered. ~ Gangster

Silentbreath · Sep 02, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

/signed

Keep TA!
kill RA sync!

and yes some fix would be great. Nerfing shove spike is a very very simple thing to do and would help a lot. God it so kills TA when you meet the same shove spike team a couple times in a row.

Some people said it would be good if teams from RA were not moved into TA after 10 wins. That is a very bad idea. Good players will tend to be in teams with 20+ streak wins and it will be more improbable to land in a good team. If your team proved to be strong enough, then move in TA. It is possible to reach over 15 wins from an RA team.

Dont mix TA and RA as someone said, it is just plain stupid. Organised team will never meet each others and will win every match; it will even become boring for the winning teams at some point.

TA is a great arena when it is the zaishen daily. Yes there are some lame builds problems, but there is the same problem with the same builds in most pvp formats.

Some extra rewards in TA would be great too, could it be glads point or another thing. I found it quite ridiculous that you get the same amount of glad point in RA and TA. Essecially since it is possible to RA sync. I'd suggest making it 1 glad point for 10 wins in RA, then you move to TA. Also, make it that you can get double faction in TA compared to RA. damn it if only i had started playing that game not just 9 months ago. Whatever we say, it's still the best rp pvp game there is. It's just soooo unfortunate that no love is being put into it. I would pay some extras in order to get good pvp skill balance.

EntropicOne · Sep 03, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

+1

Besides the fact that it hasn't really been touched in its 4 year lifetime, there's nothing particularly wrong with TA in comparison to other PvP types. As far as activity is concerned, adding up the total number of players in every district is almost always greater than 20, and that doesn't even include all of the teams currently in a game. Obviously, there are noticeable dead hours, like any pvp type, during which most North Americans and Europeans (by far the game's most abundant players) are either asleep or busy; but the arena itself is still very much alive, with some guilds being very nearly completely devoted to it.

Just because the level of competition is much higher in TA than in RA doesn't mean that the arena is flawed. A similar comparison to that of RA vs. TA can be drawn between Guild vs. Guild and Alliance Battle, for example. Alliance Battle is fairly random and commonly randomly pug'd, much like RA. GvG, on the other hand, uses players who know each other well and use a specific team build. In GvG, the level of competition is vastly more intense than that of the extremely casual (and, undeniably, often laughable) degree of competition in AB; just as TA is much more competitive than RA. Furthermore, automated and monthly tournaments very rarely end with unranked (non-ladder) guilds returning with a cape; demonstrating that GvG is based on player skill, rather than random chance. Similarly, though PUG groups, RA groups at 10 wins, and mediocre guild groups attempt TA, it is inevitably the more skilled, focused, and experienced players who end up winning (barring, of course, gimmicks).

In summation, just because a particular game type is more difficult and requires more skill and coordination doesn't mean that it should be removed just to allow the less skilled to thrive on randomness. TA is currently the ONLY TEAM GAMETYPE THAT IS NOT LARGELY DEPENDENT ON NPCS; in fact it only includes one type of NPC, which serves only to resurrect players. It is the only gametype which allows a pure Player versus Player dynamic to occur, requiring by far the most skill to win, since there is no alternative to team wiping.